Friday, March 12, 2010

Group 2

2) Heathcliff is an example of “motiveless malice.” There is no cause for his cruel treatment of Edgar, Isabella, Hareton, or Nelly.

Posts are due by Monday before class and reply by Wednesday before class.

9 comments:

  1. Heathcliff is not motivated by complete malice. He was ill-treated by Hindley, and he decided to take his anger out on others later in life. For example, when Nelly is describing him, she says “He seemed a sullen, patient child; hardened, perhaps, to ill-treatment: he would stand Hindley’s blows without winking or shedding a tear …” (34). From the day Heathcliff met Hindley, Hindley had done many wrongs to Heathcliff out of jealousy. Over time, Heathcliff started building patience and decided that he would one day exact a similar revenge. Heathcliff isn’t cruel to people out of hatred, but rather a yearning for satisfaction. A yearning that would never have existed if it wasn’t for Hiindley.

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  2. I agree with Hasan M. Heathcliff's 'malice', or ill treatment of others, is not because of nothing. His maltreatment of those around him is due his dark past, in which he was treated terribly by Hindley, possibly even going back to his life on the streets. Nelly tells the reader, "Hindley hated him: and to say the truth I did the same; and we plagued and went on with him shamefully...the mistress never put in a word on his behalf when she saw him wronged" (Bronte 34). He was treated badly by all of those around him as a youth, and his later cruel treatment of those around him is directly caused by what he believes to be unfair treatment of him during his childhood.

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  3. I disagree. He is an example of "motiveless malice" because Edgar, Isabella, Hareton, and Nelly haven't done anything to him to deserve his treatment of them. Hindley was the one responsible for the wrongs committed against Heathcliff, and therefore it is unfair for Heathcliff to take out his anger towards Hindley on others. The only one of those people who ever offended Heathcliff was Edgar, when he commented on Heathcliff's hair, and Heathcliff over-reacted. He "seized a tureen of hot apple sauce , the first thing that came under his grip, and dashed it full against the speaker's face and neck" (Bronte, 54). Heathcliff was acting out of "motiveless malice" in that instance because he was offered very little provocation for so violent a reaction.

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  4. Liz I have to disagree with you. Heathcliff does have a motive, to enact vengance upon those whom he believes have wronged him. And even in your instance of "motiveless malice" Heathcliff did indead have a motive. His motive was to destroy Edgar. Heathcliff lost the most valuabe thing in the world to him, Cathy. "It would degrad me to marry Heathcliff now" (75). For Heathliff all other things, including reason, crumble before his obsesive devotion to Catherine, and to him when she said that all his devotion turned to spite, and so he changed to be able to get his vengance. From that yes, his malice is motivated, if not senseable.

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  5. I agree that Heathcliff's behavior originates from his troubled childhood, however I think his ill treatment of Edgar, Isabella, Hareton, and Nelly is misplaced. Hindly treated him badly as did Catherine. He is taking revenge on people who do not deserve it. Heathcliff hates Edgar because Cathy wouldn't marry him; "He had listened till he heard Catherine say it would degrade her to maryy him, and then he staid to hear no further" (Bronte 75). While he has been treated badly in his lifetime, those he mistreats do no deserve it, nor does he have the right to bully them.

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  6. True those Heathcliff assaults, for want of a better word, don't deserve the torment, however as far as Heathcliff is concerned that fact doesn't matter. To Heathcliff all that matters is showing those that wronged him the wrathful judgment he dreamed up. To truly place judgment on Heathcliff I think one must first be fully in his shoes. People say that he is in the wrong and that those around him don't deserve any punishment, but to Heathcliff, I think that he thinks they do. Place yourself in his shoes and try to think, could you really keep your rational mind after all the crap he goes though? Honestly, Heathcliff seems more insane to me than Macbeth ever seemed.

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  7. I disagree with Liz. Just because his treatment of Edgar, Isabella, Harington, and Nelly has nothing to do with what they did, that does not make it motiveless. Heathcliff is angry at what happened to him in his lifetime, so he tries to make up for it with bad treatment of others. He hears things such as how it would "degrade" Catherine to marry him. This makes Heathcliff angry at the world, including Nelly for instigating the conversation. The other people he treats badly are related to Edgar and the rest of his situation, which goes back to his "dirty" (49) past.

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  8. I agree with you Aileen. I believe that his childhood had a profound influence on his desire for revenge that he takes out on others later on in life. When Heathcliff and Hindley are young, Hindley tells Heathcliff: “Take my colt, Gipsy, then … and wheedle my father out of all he has” (36). Hindley bullied Heathcliff even when they were children. This is because he saw him as a threat to his inheritance that could be “wheedled” by Heathcliff. This bullying led Heathcliff to desire revenge. If Heathcliff was in a more positive environment, then he might never have turned out as an adult that desires revenge for satisfaction.

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  9. I also agree with the thought that Heathcliff's childhood influenced his actions, however, I believe it was a compilation of the actions of the people in his environment rather than how he himself was treated. When Heathcliff and Hindley were both children, Heathcliff "seemed a sullen patient child; hardened, perhaps, to ill treatment: he would stand Hindley's blows without winking or shedding a tear" (Bronte 34). This occurance of abuse, plus Catherine's choice of Edgar over himself, and on top of that the death of Mr. Earnshaw sent Heathcliff to a depressing state and possibly out of control of his emotions. It seems as if it were all Heathcliff's fault because later in the book, those around him seem to think "every one knows your sister would have been living now, had it not been for Mr. Heathcliff. After all, it is preferable to be hated than loved by him. When I recollect how happy we were- how happy Catherine was before he came- I'm fit to curse the day" (Bronte 171).Though the actions around him caused him to be bitter and a rather hateful person eventually, none see the front side of that and only the fact that he became resentful, neglecting their role in his torment.

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